I Hate Being Wrong
Tim is going to read that title and laugh and then throw it in my face that I finally admitted it. But, really, I hate being wrong. And I hate it especially when that wrongness hurts someone else.
There is a lot to be said about language, and, most importantly about language, in my humble opinion, is the fact that it has such power to motivate, inspire, direct, and – yes – hurt people. As an English major, a writer, and a blogger, I feel I’ve been entrusted with this power and I must wield it carefully.
Honestly, there are a lot of things I avoid saying on here because I fear offending someone, or I am afraid I’ll say it the wrong way. I feel comfortable blogging about women’s rights because, hey, I am a woman, so if I say something about feminism and women’s rights, it must be OK, right? But what if I say something wrong about something I don’t really have any experience with, or what if I say something offensive or use an offensive word and don’t realize it? The truth is that I should know better, but I do slip up. Or sometimes I don’t know better, and people assume that since I write in this civil rights blogosphere that I should, and get angry with me when I had no clue a term or phrase was offensive.
This is also very often the reason I avoid commenting on blogs. The pressure to “say it right” in someone else’s sphere is so intense sometimes that it’s difficult to formulate a complete thought, let alone a coherent comment that doesn’t derail the discussion. So, often, I don’t comment at all.
I guess I’m sharing this because it’s been bothering me lately. I feel like the purpose of the feminist blogosphere should be to educate, and in order to educate people, one should be insistent that we “say it right” but, also, should be a patient teacher. I feel like we should be able to say what we have to say and, if something is said in an offensive way, we should trust that those offended will come to us privately and explain to us why we should edit what we wrote or change our writing practices in the future. And, on the other side, the people who wrote the offensive word or phrase should be open to the criticism and try their best to change.
Any thoughts?
Part of what you need to ask yourself is how you’d respond if someone – say a white male blogger – said he never writes about women because he’s afraid he’ll get it wrong, and then people will be upset with him.
I’m also not sure I agree with the idea that the feminist blogosphere is about teaching people. For some of us, it is. For others of us, it’s speaking to an audience where we don’t have to “moderate our tone”. For others, it’s a combination of writing teaching posts and writing awareness-building posts. For others it’s a way of highlighting outrage.
I mean, we’re all here for different purposes.
How I react to people saying something I find problematic depends on how much I trust the person, how much I think the effort to teach them is worth to me, personally, and what my mood is like that day. How I react when a co-worker calls something r#tarded is totally different than how I react on a blog, how I react to a friend, how I react to my boss, and how I react to a stranger.
Also, I’m more forgiving of people who buy me coffee.
I’m not sure how I’d respond to a white male blogger who said he didn’t blog about women because he’s afraid he’d get it wrong. I might sympathize, although I’d think it would be important to talk about that sentiment.
You also make a good point that we don’t all use the internet for the same reasons. And we don’t all use the blogosphere for the same reason every time we write a post; it may be a combination of all the reasons you mentioned and more. But I do think that people in the same blogosphere should be a little more patient sometimes with people who are in the same sphere. Regardless of our purpose for writing, we all read each other to learn more, and I just would hope that we would also rise to the occasion to be good teachers and fight the good fight in that way. I know if people would have been more patient with me than angry with me in explaining their reasons for not liking something I wrote, I’d be more inclined to deal with the issue further in the future. However, when someone becomes angry with me, my first reaction is to shut down, say I’m sorry, and never, ever, talk about it again.
Please know, also, that I’m not talking about you when I say things like this. You (and most bloggers in this sphere) have been excellent teachers to me.
What I believe you’re referring to, Ashley, is that there is a lack of civility on the Internet. With the shroud of anonymity, people think all the rules have been thrown out the window. It can seem like verbal road rage on steroids.
For instance, you mentioned commenting. Say you try to participate in a conversation about a feminist issue on a blog or Twitter and you say something that is really well-intentioned and completely innocent, but 100% ignorant? Others immediately slam you for your “privilege”. I’ve had people on Twitter get extremely angry at me in a matter of seconds for saying something that was REALLY offensive but I didn’t know it was offensive when I said it. All of the sudden, there is anger and venom spewing at me. I couldn’t figure out what the heck had happened or what I had said.
In that particular instance, I probably intruded into someone else’s ‘safe’ space, although I have to wonder if Twitter is ever really private or ‘safe’. Regardless, this kind of thing happens all the time, particularly, in my experience anyways, the transgender and disability spheres. If you say the wrong thing, you get yelled at. If you object to being yelled at, you are accused of trying to derail the conversation.
I will probably be criticized for this comment but I don’t care. I am not a member of the transgender community although I am trying to learn how to be an ally. I am, however, a person with a disability and I am often appalled at how conversations on ableism and especially ableist language often proceed.
I don’t know what the answer is but I do wish everyone online treated each other with more respect.
With the shroud of anonymity, people think all the rules have been thrown out the window.
YES! Instead of indicting people for their privilege (that they may or may not have explored or been made aware of before that very moment, and which really isn’t their fault) I wish people would be more willing to try first to explain why something was ignorant, as you say. Then, if someone doesn’t want to see the privilege apparent in their comment, or tries to defend the privilege apparent in their comment, then is the time to get angry.
I feel the same way. I’d love to cover more issues regarding ethnicity and race on my blog, and ableism, and trans issues, but since I have privilege in those areas I feel unqualified to talk about them.
And I also stay quiet in comment conversations. I often read them and want to respond, but it feels so hostile and I feel so uncertain that I can say things “THE RIGHT WAY” that I just keep quiet.
I hate that even among self-described feminists there isn’t enough safety, compassion, and patience to have these conversations. I understand that the topics we discuss are very tender and I understand why people are sensitive, defensive, and passionate about them. But we need to find a better way to CONVERSE about the issues without it turning into fights about who is the better activist/spokesperson/educator/feminist.
I hate that even among self-described feminists there isn’t enough safety, compassion, and patience to have these conversations. I understand that the topics we discuss are very tender and I understand why people are sensitive, defensive, and passionate about them. But we need to find a better way to CONVERSE about the issues without it turning into fights about who is the better activist/spokesperson/educator/feminist.
I agree, but I don’t think it’s always about who’s better. I think most of it is that these topics are emotionally charged, and therefore it’s easy for people to get very upset very quickly. I just wish we could “talk” more, although I do understand why it is that people get upset about these topics. It is very difficult to over and over explain why some things are offensive. And, quite honestly, the squeaky wheel gets the oil or however that phrase goes. I don’t know; I suppose it’s a fine line we walk as activists…
Oh great, WP thinks my comment is spammy. Awesome, WP.
I’m going to take all http: out of the links, so you’ll have to c&p them into your browser. Sorry.
Then, if someone doesn’t want to see the privilege apparent in their comment, or tries to defend the privilege apparent in their comment, then is the time to get angry.
Can I get angry with you now then?
“I’m afraid of saying something wrong because someone might get mad at me for it” is a priviliged position.
People who challenge privilige are often yelled at, called names, told to shut up, and various other things. They’re told this because they’re challenging privilige.
I don’t have the ability to not challenge privilige, Ashley. I challenge it every time I leave the house with my husband. I challenge it if I write on my blog about my personal experiences in life. In order to not make other people uncomfortable, I’d have to stop talking and my husband would have to never leave the house.
As well, I’m not sure what isn’t priviliged about expecting marganilized people to educate you about stuff, calmly and rationally, because you have the best of intentions. How do I know you have the
best of intentions? Because you’re a feminist blogger? That doesn’t really back up your argument, since feminist bloggers are regularly ableist, racist, transphobic, classist, ageist and US-centric. When challenged on these things, all hell breaks loose.
trouble.dreamwidth.org/522344.html : Feministing challenged on ableism in a very polite and clear way – commenters decide PWD are oversensitive and should shut up and talk about *real* problems.
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/02/15/dear-usians-on-the-internet/ :
Feministe challenged on US-centrism, commenters tell non-USians they should shut up and talk about “real” problems. Also, that Chally is a stupid teenie, although you may have to look at a few other sites to get more of the latter.
shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2010/01/rip-mary-daly.html : Shakesville
challenged about celebrating a transphobic writer.
the-silence-of-our-friends.blogspot.com/2007/04/more-sofia-coppola-feminism.html : Pandagon is challenged on classism
And everything that went down with “It’s a Jungle In Here” & “Full
Frontal Feminism”, of course. Here’s a very short list:
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/04/22/today-amanda-marcotte-at-kgb-bar-in-manhattan/ : The comments to this post on Amanda Marcotte’s book reading
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/04/25/i-guess-its-a-jungle-in-here-too-huh/ : I Guess it’s a jungle in here too, huh?
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/04/26/on-those-pictures-and-on-privilege/ : On Those Pictures And On Privilege
Related:
magniloquence.wordpress.com/2007/08/24/race-relations-101-what-if-i-screw-up/ : Race Relations 101: What If I Screw up?
I know that’s a lot to read, since there seems to be no comment thread
that didn’t hit into the 200s because people get pissed when you challenge their privilige.
Why should’t I believe that you, who are an educated woman who blogs about her education, who has written about the feminist blogosphere in her thesis, knows what she’s doing when she writes about not wanting to risk being yelled at by marganlized people on the internet? You’re making your discomfort at being corrected, at being taught in
a way you aren’t comfortable with, more important than anything else.
I get told I’m ruining the Halloween Party my department held by asking if it’s wheelchair accessible, since our families are invited. Complete with eye-rolls and complaints about me to the department
chair, since I apparently make *every* family outing about whether or not it’s wheelchair accessible.
I don’t get to not talk about it. And when I do talk about it, I’m “so angry and aggressive”. Apparently just being me in public is angry and aggressive.
I think you may find zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com/429727.html : this post about the subject insightful.
I’d also like to point out that I’ve spend the better part of an hour putting together this comment, and searching for links to back this up. This is taking the time to explain things, and trusting you want to learn. I’m taking the risk of telling you that you’re wrong – and it’s taken a lot of time and energy on my part to do so.
Not sure why the comment was caught in spam, as I have it sent to allow commenters with previously published comments to be published automatically. 🙁 Sorry about that.
I’m also sorry that I’ve upset you, and I do appreciate the links and the time you’ve spent putting this together for me (and my readers, who may venture back). I will read every single one of them (in fact, I’ve already read several). I’ve also read much of your writing on disability and privilege and you have already taught me quite a bit that way, and I will continue to read and learn from you, because I think you are a fantastic writer and activist and teacher.
That said, I’d like to respond to a few things in your comment right away before I tackle the rest of the posts here that I haven’t read yet.
“I’m afraid of saying something wrong because someone might get mad at me for it” is a priviliged position.
People who challenge privilige are often yelled at, called names, told to shut up, and various other things. They’re told this because they’re challenging privilige.
I have seen this happen, and I see it as an egregious act to tell anyone to shut up or yell at anyone for calling out privilege. I would absolutely never do this. I was shocked at the apparent privilege of the commenters and their refusal to see any other perspective in the comments of Chally’s Feministe post, for example. And when Feministing was challenged about their ableist language in a “polite and clear way” and the “commenters decide PWD are oversensitive and should shut up and talk about *real* problems,” I was appalled. I would expect more from a site that should be a safe space for everyone. They should have apologized and changed the wording in that post and also changed what they wrote in the future. And that is what I was trying to say – when someone is addressed calmly like that about a problem and still doesn’t change, then it is time to get angry.
You’re right, you shouldn’t trust me just because I’m a part of the feminist blogosphere. Feminists have a long history of ableism and privilege, and not just on the internet. But I would hope that you would trust me because you know me and I had hoped we had begun to forge a productive working relationship on the internet (and now I’ve probably ruined all that) and you know that I would not intentionally offend anyone. Or maybe I have a lot more proving myself to do, and that’s fine. I’m willing to do that; that’s why I’m here.
And you should absolutely expect me to find information on my own; I have the knowledge and the resources to do so. I guess I was just trying to say that I don’t yet know everything about everything (not even close – and I probably never will) and I’m human. I might use a term in the wrong way or use a term that is offensive and not even know it. I’d expect to get called out on that; I’d HOPE to get called out on that, because I want to learn. I would just hope that it would be done more in a way that was like, “Hey, that term you used here, that’s offensive” than the yelling and curse words that I’ve seen in my inbox in the past without any previous discussion on the matter.
I’m not trying to say that you shouldn’t get angry with people who tell you you are ruining the Halloween Party or that Chally shouldn’t have gotten upset with those commenters, etc. I’m just saying that sometimes (not in those cases, obviously, but sometimes) it is an honest mistake. One that we want to correct, but maybe don’t know how.
It was caught in the spam-trap because it had so many links. Anything more than three will be caught in spam automatically by WP.
I’m just confused – why should my sympathy be with the priviliged person who made the mistake, and not with the non-priviliged person who has been marginanlized again?
If you don’t see my willingness to engage with this post as being a sign of trust and a working relationship, what do you think it is? Do you really think I have the time to lay this stuff out and open myself up in a space I don’t own because I have nothing better to do, so I thought I’d entertain myself this way?
This *is* about trusting you and thinking that this conversation will be productive rather than another opportunity to throw away my time & energy.
What you’re doing when you focus on your own hurt – and I get the impulse to do so, I am still stinging over something someone said to me a few years ago about my ignorance and privilige because *it hurt* to not be a Nice Person – is you’re saying your hurt feelings are more important than the *hurtful things you said*. Even if you said them by accident. Even though it’s your privilige that allowed you to be ignorant of it.
That’s what privilige *is*. And it’s a particular form of privilige that allows your hurt feelings to be the most important aspect of conversations about privilge and language.
I don’t know if you’ll have time to respond to this for a while, but I do know I’m out of the house for the rest of the day and if I don’t get this grading done today i won’t be online tomorrow as well, so if I go quiet it’s not because you crossed some line or said something that made me angry – it’s just because it’s grading season.
Sorry it took me so long to respond. I was at the high school musical last night and slept late this morning, and I will be out all day, so if you get a chance to see this, I won’t be able to respond until much later – maybe tomorrow.
So I’ve been running this around and around in my brain trying to figure out what to say here because I really do think we’re on the same page. I agree with you that the hurtful things I said are more important than my hurt feelings at being called out. In fact, I believe I said before that I would hope to be called out on something like that because that is how we learn about these issues. And, of course, I will always be upset that I said something offensive, but my being upset stems from the fact that I unintentionally hurt someone and never meant to do so, not from the fact that I was told I was wrong. Being wrong does not hurt me; what hurts me is hurting other people.
Which is where I think the problem is stemming from here. The title of my post was “I Hate Being Wrong,” probably giving the sense that I can’t admit when I’m wrong and I won’t, even if called out for it. And the tone of my post was “educate me” or “take pity on me, I don’t know any better,” which wasn’t my intent, either. It sort of just came out that way, and for that, I apologize. It isn’t your job to educate me, as you’ve said; I have the knowledge and the resources to educate myself. And I am a part of this community, so if I didn’t know by now about ableist language and how to watch out for it, I’m obviously not paying attention and not being a good member of the community. And I certainly don’t deserve pity or sympathy, nor am I asking for it, even if that is what the tone of this post implied. All of the examples you provided me with are examples of situations that I would say were handled exceptionally well; there were calm explanations at first, and after that was futile, there was well-deserved anger. What I’m talking about here is a situation in which I used a term that I had seen many others in this community use and had researched myself before using, and then woke up to a slew of curse words and threats in my inbox from a reader. It just seemed unnecessary, especially considering that I had done my research on the term and asked around a little bit to see if that term was acceptable (essentially educating myself), and then was not called out so much as told off and a bit bullied. No one deserves an e-mail in their inbox with curse words and threats before any sort of calm “Hey, that word you used really bothered me” discussion has taken place.